Welcome to Season 11 of the PolicyViz Podcast! After a relaxing summer full of travel and reading and fun, I’m ready to kick off a whole new season of the show. To kick off this season, I’m excited to be joined by Frederica Fragapane, an independent designer known for her intricate and beautiful data visualizations. Our conversation delves into her creative process, the tools she uses, and where she finds inspiration. Fragapane, with a Master’s degree in visualization design and experience at Accurat Studio, integrates data into her bespoke visualizations that convey deeper narratives, particularly human experiences and environmental issues. She prefers organic shapes to reflect the living presence behind data, emphasizing beauty, context, audience, and accessibility.
Topics Discussed
- Creative Process and Inspirations. Frederica shares insights into her unique approach to designing data visualizations, emphasizing the importance of aesthetics and context. She prefers using organic shapes to convey the living presence behind data, striving to make her visualizations resonate on a human level.
- Tools and Techniques. Fragapane collaborates closely with data analysts and utilizes a variety of tools, including Excel, Google Sheets, Adobe Illustrator, Raw Graphs, and Figma. Her process involves thorough data analysis, macro-structural examination, and detailed sketching before moving on to technical execution.
- Challenges and Solutions. A key challenge she discusses is depicting diversity without relying on iconography, ensuring subtle yet impactful representation. She emphasizes the importance of accessibility, engaging readers through aesthetic appeal and concise text to cater to varying levels of data literacy.
- Current Projects and Collaborations. Frederica is currently involved in a project with the European Union, creating visualizations for a photographic exhibition focused on sustainability. We talk about her experience working on museum exhibitions, highlighting her efforts to make visualizations accessible and understandable to all visitors.
Resources
Check out Federica’s Behance portfolio and follow her on Instagram.
Guest Bio
Federica Fragapane is an independent information designer who specializes in creating projects and data visualizations as a freelancer. Over the years, she has designed data visualizations for Google, the United Nations, WHO, the Publications Office of the European Union, BBC Science Focus, Atmos and she collaborates periodically with La Lettura. Many of her projects take an experimental approach, carefully selecting visual languages to encourage readers to engage with the narratives conveyed by the data. In 2023, three of her data visualization were acquired by the Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) in New York, becoming part of its Permanent Collection.
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Transcript
00:12 – 00:21
Welcome back to the PolicyViz Podcast season number 11. I’m your host, Jon Schwabisch. I hope you’re well.
00:21 – 00:23
I hope you had an enjoyable summer.
00:23 – 00:33
Into fall here in the US, the leaves are still green, but the kids are out of the house for just a little bit of the day so
00:33 – 00:36
I can get some work done, which is very nice.
00:36 – 00:39
So back to the podcast, pulling a lot of stuff together.
00:39 – 00:49
I’ve got some great folks lined up to teach you and help you create better, more effective, clearer data visualizations, presentations,
00:50 – 00:59
social media posts, reports, briefs, blogs, whatever you are creating where you want to communicate your data, your analysis, your research.
00:59 – 01:06
We are going to start the season talking about more non standard forms of data visualization.
01:06 – 01:12
So we’re Jon to move away from bar charts and line charts and pie charts and into the more custom bespoke visualizations.
01:12 – 01:18
And I’m very excited to talk with Frederica Fragapani from Italy about her work.
01:18 – 01:22
If you’re in the field of data visualization, you have seen her stuff.
01:22 – 01:26
Even if you’re not enmeshed in the field, you’ve probably seen her stuff.
01:26 – 01:34
You may not even know that you’ve seen her stuff. It is super detailed. It is super bespoke. It is beautiful. It is lovely. It is informative.
01:34 – 01:42
Now before we get over to the interview, I would be remiss if I did not start off this season by asking you for a quick favor.
01:42 – 01:51
If you would, please rate or review the show on your favorite podcast provider, be it Spotify, be it iTunes, wherever you
01:51 – 02:00
listen to this podcast, if you would be a dear and please just click those 5 stars or write a quick review, I would really appreciate it.
02:00 – 02:11
And if you don’t wanna write a review, if you don’t wanna leave a rating for the podcast, maybe you could do that for one of my books over at Amazon. Yes. All of these things help. They help me find new guests.
02:11 – 02:15
They help me find more folks who can help me produce the podcast.
02:16 – 02:29
They help me find more people who can listen to the show and improve their visualization so that we can improve the data that is communicated around the world. So, yes, it does help. It does go a long way.
02:29 – 02:37
So if you could just click that little button wherever you’re listening to this, click 5 stars, I would appreciate it. Alright.
02:37 – 02:44
With that out of the way, let’s get into the first episode of season 11 of The Policy This podcast.
02:44 – 02:48
I’m very excited to have Frederica join me on the show to talk about her work.
02:48 – 02:58
We talk about a whole host of things about how she thinks about creating these bespoke detailed visualizations. We talk about her process.
02:58 – 03:04
We talk about her tools, and we talk about what inspires her in the creative process.
03:04 – 03:07
So I’m sure you’re gonna enjoy this first episode of the podcast.
03:07 – 03:11
And here is my conversation with Federica Fragerfeld.
03:14 – 03:16
Hi, Federica. Great to see you.
03:16 – 03:17
Hi, John.
03:17 – 03:22
It’s been, like, what, 6 years maybe since we spoke?
03:23 – 03:27
Just trying to figure out, like, maybe OpenViz in 2018, 2019, something like that?
03:27 – 03:29
Yeah. Exactly. In Paris.
03:29 – 03:31
Wow. Yeah. So it’s been a while.
03:31 – 03:41
So, I’ve been obviously watching your work with admiration and a little bit of envy and how beautiful and amazing all of your stuff is.
03:41 – 03:47
So I wanted to chat with you about your process and your projects and just how you think about everything.
03:47 – 03:55
So maybe for folks who aren’t aware, we can start with just, like, introduction, like, how you got to where you are now and
03:55 – 03:59
and and the sort of work that you’re doing and maybe some of the folks that you’re working with.
03:59 – 04:01
Yes. Sure. So first of all, thank you.
04:01 – 04:05
Thank you so much for your words, and thank you for having me. So my name is Federica Fragapane.
04:05 – 04:09
I’m an independent, data visualization designer, information designer.
04:10 – 04:20
I’ve been working as a freelancer since 2015, but I’ve been doing this job since 2012 when I started working at Accurate,
04:21 – 04:25
very well known information design agency based in Milan, New York.
04:25 – 04:29
Before that, I I have a master degree in visualization design.
04:30 – 04:41
And, during my master degree there, I attended a course, the density design course who was founded by Paolo Ceccarelli, at the time.
04:41 – 04:44
And during my studies, I attended this course.
04:44 – 04:53
It’s a course it’s it’s still at for a technical in Milano, where I studied, and it’s a course, with a focus on data visualization and information design.
04:54 – 04:56
It was a field I didn’t know very well.
04:56 – 04:58
I was just very curious about it.
04:58 – 05:07
And so I attended the course during my studies at Politecnico, and I discovered how interested I was in into combining what
05:07 – 05:11
I was studying about graphic design and communication to contents to data information.
05:12 – 05:22
So that was for me a very important moment in my career because I I discovered this field and I understood I passionate I was about it.
05:22 – 05:31
So then I worked at Accurate and for a few years, it was definitely another very important moment in my career. It helped me a lot. I learned a lot.
05:31 – 05:41
Also, for a confidence perspective because I was freshly graduated, so it was very, very helpful, and it was an amazing environment to work in.
05:41 – 05:46
And and then I started at in 2015, and this is my my current situation.
05:46 – 05:50
And during the past years, I worked with different magazines and organizations.
05:51 – 06:01
I’ve been working with BBC, with Pacific American, with Google, the UN, European Union, and I’m still I consider myself very
06:01 – 06:03
lucky because I’m still enjoying very much what I do.
06:03 – 06:12
Yeah. So did you when you were studying graphic design, did you find you had a desire to work with data?
06:12 – 06:18
Like, was that something you were interested in or had some inclination towards?
06:19 – 06:26
I actually wasn’t aware of this possibility when I started studying design, like, in the 1st years of university.
06:26 – 06:31
I’ve started learning about the existence of infographics after some years there at Polytechnic.
06:31 – 06:34
And I was very curious about that.
06:34 – 06:37
This is why I decided to attend and see design.
06:37 – 06:45
I mean, when I was a student high school student, I loved math, so and science, so I guess that part was always there. Yeah.
06:47 – 06:56
And but it was attending the course that I really discovered that I was interested into using graphic design to to display
06:56 – 07:02
information, to help understanding topics, that was the moment in which I really realized that.
07:02 – 07:09
Yeah. I I’m always interested in this because I obviously, with my background in in economics, come to information visualization
07:09 – 07:15
kind of from the data side and have tried to like add on admittedly very elementary, like graphic design skills.
07:15 – 07:24
But I’m always interested in sort of people who come from the other side and have that more graphic design training or perspective,
07:24 – 07:26
and then add on the data side on top of it.
07:26 – 07:34
So maybe with Acurad, as you started to work with Acurad, like, did you find it difficult to start working with data and like understand that part of the job?
07:34 – 07:39
Was it you had a lot of people around you that were able to help you sort of guide you in how to work with data?
07:39 – 07:43
Yeah. I would say I I I didn’t find particularly challenging.
07:45 – 07:54
Also something that I really enjoy about this, this kind of of job is that I collaborate a lot with different people.
07:54 – 08:02
So there are cases in which I work independently on on the data and, I mean, for for data that are not super complex, of course.
08:02 – 08:08
I mean, with a certain level of complexity anyway but there are also cases in which I collaborate with scientists or data
08:08 – 08:13
analysts and so this this collaboration aspect is something that I particularly enjoy.
08:13 – 08:22
And so I have to say no, I didn’t find it particularly challenging, maybe because I was inclined towards also maths and a certain scientific approach.
08:22 – 08:27
So I think that helped me a lot because it’s something that I already had I already had an interest into.
08:27 – 08:36
Right. What’s really I find really interesting about your work is that it’s, very detailed, very bespoke.
08:37 – 08:43
It has a little bit of kind of like the early Georgia loopy, like angular, that sort of approach.
08:43 – 08:50
And I’m curious about why you’re drawn And maybe that’s just what I see sort of publicly as the big pieces.
08:50 – 08:56
I’m sure you’re doing other stuff that’s like, you know, bar charts, line charts, but like, I’m curious why you’re drawn to
08:56 – 09:04
those big detailed bespoke pieces and what sort of drives you to create that sort of more detailed visualization as opposed
09:04 – 09:07
to, yeah, you know, here’s a small multiples of bar charts.
09:08 – 09:15
Yeah. So, as you mentioned, actually, I also work I have nothing against, bar charts, line charts, and so on.
09:15 – 09:22
I I work with I work on on class on graphics that are more classical, let’s say. Mhmm.
09:22 – 09:27
For instance, I work with the publication office of the euro European Union.
09:27 – 09:30
And for them, I work with very classical minimal and simple graphics.
09:31 – 09:38
Also, in those cases, I have to say, I spend a lot of time on the aesthetics and the refinements too because I think, for me, it’s an important aspect anyway.
09:38 – 09:44
But so that’s to say, I for me, creating data visualization is really an act similar to the writing one.
09:44 – 09:49
And I think that in writing, the words that you can use, the tone that you can use can be very different.
09:49 – 09:53
There is not there isn’t just one good way in which you can write.
09:53 – 09:59
It definitely depends on what you want to convey and what is the the context, who are the readers.
09:59 – 10:03
And the same concept for me is valid in data visualization.
10:03 – 10:12
So for me, I’m really for me, I’m I’m working with the visual words also combined to to textual elements, of course.
10:12 – 10:23
And and the shape that I give to these words really depends on the needs, the projects, answers to, on the usage context.
10:23 – 10:26
So there are there are cases on the data also.
10:26 – 10:38
So to give you another example, I I worked on a I I often work Jon, pieces that have an organic look and feel, shapes that are very soft and organic.
10:39 – 10:46
And and for me, I I often work with data that have a living presence behind them, ecosystems or human lives behind them.
10:46 – 10:53
And for me, working on when it makes sense to do it, when it makes sense for the usage context, working on on organic and
10:53 – 10:57
soft shapes is a way in which I try to recall this presence behind the data.
10:57 – 11:00
And sometimes it’s asked by the clients too.
11:00 – 11:04
So so for instance, some years ago I worked on a piece for a magazine called Atmos.
11:05 – 11:15
It was a piece part of, investigative a piece of investigative journalism by the journalist, Yesenia Funes, about environmental activist killed in Brazil.
11:15 – 11:20
And she asked me some data visualizations to accompany a brilliant article.
11:20 – 11:27
And she asked me to use an organic look and feel, those those ranges of the projects of mine, those kind of projects because
11:27 – 11:31
I had different ranges of experimentations of shapes I use.
11:31 – 11:40
And in that case, she asked me to use this that kind of language because it was, in her opinion, it worked well with her work,
11:40 – 11:42
with the article, and with the data.
11:42 – 11:49
So the the main reason is, what I’m telling, what are the data, what are the information, and also the context.
11:49 – 11:57
If I work for analysts, analysts, of course, for dashboards, there is a need to use soft organic shapes.
11:57 – 12:03
Also, in those cases, as I was mentioning, it’s it’s very important for me to have something that can be, pleasant to look
12:03 – 12:07
at because for me, it’s always an invitation to the readers.
12:07 – 12:12
But there are cases in which doesn’t make sense to experiment with shapes and visual images.
12:12 – 12:19
But there are context in which, it’s required, from from the clients too.
12:19 – 12:22
And and in my opinion, makes makes sense to to do that.
12:22 – 12:28
Right. You mentioned this this phrase that I love living presence of the data, and I wanna dig into that a little bit.
12:28 – 12:30
How do you think about data generally?
12:30 – 12:37
But I think my question is, like, how what is the thought behind this phrase living presence of the data?
12:37 – 12:47
So there are different layers of of presence. So first of all, the stories. The the easiest one. The stories that the data tells.
12:47 – 12:54
So I often work on data which have human stories behind them or or ecosystems, living ecosystems, the environment.
12:55 – 13:00
And in that case, this is the human the the presence, the living presence I’m referring to.
13:01 – 13:10
But, as also, and and many other designers and authors are have been telling data aren’t neutral creatures creatures at all.
13:10 – 13:13
There there is always a presence behind them.
13:13 – 13:19
This is the 2nd layer, the second level of presence because inevitably they have people behind them, they have human choices
13:19 – 13:24
behind them and then when there is an algorithm, of course, there is a presence behind the algorithm too.
13:24 – 13:35
And so, for me, when I can, it’s always important to, to, in some way, to try to relieve this presence, to showcase this presence.
13:36 – 13:44
Also working on shapes that are not necessarily always geometrical and imperfect, but working on imperfect and soft shapes,
13:44 – 13:49
for me, it’s a way to to try to in a more or less subtle way to declare this.
13:49 – 13:57
Yeah. It’s interesting interesting in some ways to hear you talk about that because one of the things that I observe about
13:57 – 14:03
your work is, is exactly as you obviously mentioned, like, I mean, just thinking about like in my head, your Instagram feed
14:03 – 14:08
right now, like it’s a lot of like flowers and trees and now sorts of organic shapes.
14:08 – 14:16
But what I don’t see a lot in my memory, of course, is a lot of like icons of representing people or communities.
14:16 – 14:19
And I’m and I’m curious about that because I struggle with this.
14:19 – 14:26
If I think about trying to represent people like icons are very powerful way, because you can, you know, you see this image
14:26 – 14:29
of a person rather than an abstract, you know, bar or circle.
14:30 – 14:39
But on the other hand, there’s this challenge with sort of representing people accurately, you know, to reflect the diversity that’s in the data.
14:39 – 14:47
And so I’m curious about your perspective on kind of now I could be wrong, but what I sort of view is in your work, like you’re
14:47 – 14:57
using a lot of individual data with this as I love this living presence phrase, but not sort of using icons and images of individual people.
14:57 – 15:01
Yeah. That’s true. It’s I would say it’s a a personal preference.
15:01 – 15:04
I mean, I have nothing against, again, icons, of course.
15:04 – 15:06
I think they can be extremely helpful.
15:07 – 15:10
But it’s just something that is pretty essential to me.
15:10 – 15:24
For me, it’s, I prefer to represent this this presence in a more subtle way than an icon, for instance, with a shape that can be regular or organic.
15:24 – 15:26
But it’s just something that is very pers a personal approach.
15:26 – 15:32
It’s just the way in which I, I do it, the way in which I I I find it simple doing it.
15:32 – 15:33
Yeah.
15:33 – 15:40
Rather than depicting them more literally. There are, again, cases in which I design icons because they they can be very helpful.
15:40 – 15:53
But usually, I I try to represent the same feeling in a different way using the shape of the visual elements rather than the actual representation, if it makes sense.
15:53 – 15:59
Yeah. No. It totally makes sense. It’s just it’s just curious to me how different, you know, people approach the these designs.
16:00 – 16:06
So you have these organic flowing fairly not fairly. No.
16:06 – 16:08
In in many cases, very detailed visualizations.
16:09 – 16:19
And I wanted to ask how you think about how the reader navigates their way through it and how you try to facilitate that navigation.
16:20 – 16:27
Yeah. So first of all, the the the there is a concept that I already mentioned that is the aesthetics as an invitation.
16:27 – 16:34
So I work with care on the settings of my pieces also for the ones that are more classical or simpler.
16:36 – 16:43
For me, working with Care on the aesthetics of the visualization is really an invitation to the readers, an attempt to invite
16:43 – 16:55
them to delve into my projects and looking into the data, hoping that it can be a pleasant experience even if the data are not pleasant at all, sometimes.
16:56 – 16:59
So this is the main the first step.
16:59 – 17:02
I try to catch their attention through the aesthetics of my visuals.
17:03 – 17:08
And then, of course, there is, the legend, the key that for me is essential.
17:08 – 17:11
I really spend a lot of time, designing the legends.
17:11 – 17:14
It’s one of the part that it’s more important to me.
17:14 – 17:19
I work with them with extreme care. I test them a lot.
17:19 – 17:26
I always say that I send them to my parents, because they are not data visualization experts. They are they are not journalists.
17:26 – 17:28
They are not part of these fields.
17:28 – 17:31
So for me it’s very important to listen to their feedback.
17:31 – 17:34
Also to exit from my bubble, my workflow Right.
17:34 – 17:41
And to have feedback from somebody who has never seen the project before, it’s super important and helpful for me.
17:41 – 17:45
So the legend is the bridge between me and and the readers.
17:45 – 17:49
Also, the short text that accompany the visualizations are very important.
17:49 – 17:57
I really I I really think that I really believe in the importance of combining visual representations to simple, short text
17:58 – 18:06
that can accompany the reading because we are not at that level of data literacy, and I cannot take for granted that, an average
18:06 – 18:10
user can can look at the graphic, even the simplest ones.
18:10 – 18:15
Of course, this is even more important for the very complex and detailed and experimental ones.
18:15 – 18:23
And then I often work with pieces that are explorative, so I’m not necessarily trying to prove a point, but the idea is just
18:23 – 18:26
to let people explore the data Mhmm.
18:26 – 18:31
And find their own insights and focus on the aspect they are more interested into.
18:31 – 18:42
Right. Have you found over time that your parents are more data literate given that you like if you like constantly show them things?
18:42 – 18:46
Like, have you found that they like it’s easier and easier for them to navigate through?
18:47 – 18:52
Yeah. Of course, they are. In fact, they are not as good as testers, let’s say.
18:52 – 18:52
Yeah. Right.
18:52 – 19:01
Yeah. Yeah. No. Of course. Yes. But, still I mean, of course, when I work on on on my projects, I I I have feedback from the clients. So
19:01 – 19:02
Right. Sure.
19:02 – 19:08
But I still believe that the opinion of somebody who has never seen the project, it’s it’s very important.
19:08 – 19:15
But, yes, of course, I noticed that they are very now for them is definitely easier. But it’s interesting too. I mean yeah.
19:15 – 19:22
Yeah. No. It’s just it’s just kinda funny as we think about, you know, the sort of whole separate field of data literacy and
19:22 – 19:30
numeracy help, you know, I don’t think you need science to back this up as people are exposed more to seeing visualizations or data. They’re just better at it.
19:30 – 19:34
And it’s sort of funny when, you know, I hear this a lot.
19:34 – 19:38
People are like, oh, you know, show it to your to your mom, your dad, your your friend who’s not a data person.
19:38 – 19:41
But, like, the more you show to these individuals, the better they are at it.
19:41 – 19:47
And like you said, they become worse at the you’re, like, you’re testers. So that’s that’s that’s a challenge.
19:48 – 19:59
So I’m sure folks are wondering about your process, both in terms of how you go from conception to final project and sort
19:59 – 20:08
of the practical, like what tools you use, but also in sort of your conception of before you get into trying to build that
20:08 – 20:10
final project, like how you get to that, to that point.
20:10 – 20:11
So it’s sort of a 2 part question.
20:11 – 20:19
We could start with maybe the conceptual part of how you sort of like build it out in your head and then get before you get to, like, the computer part.
20:19 – 20:24
But then I’m sure folks are interested in what tools you’re using because, I’m sure there there are folks out there who are curious about that.
20:24 – 20:32
Yeah. Sure. So, of course, I work on very different kind of projects with different complexity, but usually, I mean, of course,
20:32 – 20:34
the first thing that I do is looking at the data.
20:34 – 20:43
But before that, what I do constantly is saving images, looking for inspiration, so many images on Pinterest or Instagram
20:43 – 20:51
or when I go to a museum or when I see something of, a leaf with a shape that I enjoy particularly, I just need a picture of it.
20:51 – 20:59
I mean, for me, it’s really important to create this constantly updated catalog of images that in some way speak to me.
20:59 – 21:07
In fact, I I coming to to to the other question about the Jon, I I I don’t necessarily think that using organic shapes is
21:07 – 21:11
the only way to talk about leaving presence behind the data.
21:11 – 21:14
It’s just the way in which for me it’s existing to have to do it.
21:14 – 21:21
And also when I look for inspiration, I’ve looked for inspiration and I save images that in some way, speak to me.
21:21 – 21:28
And this is what helped me, I think, in creating my own style and it’s just Right. A very personal perspective.
21:28 – 21:29
Yeah.
21:29 – 21:36
And so I I have this collection of images and I try to update data, not necessarily when I have to start a new project.
21:37 – 21:45
And then when I have a new project and I have new data, what I find helpful is, first of all, studying the data and having
21:45 – 21:48
in mind the macro structure of the data, sketching the macro structure.
21:48 – 21:53
I have 50 countries, 10 years of CO2 emissions for such country.
21:53 – 21:57
Just sketching the the the skeleton of the information, the structural of the information.
21:57 – 22:07
And then I brow I spend a lot of time looking for inspiration, browsing my catalog, but just after I’ve in in mind the structure of the data.
22:07 – 22:14
In this way, I can find elements, visual elements that can talk to the data that I’m working with.
22:14 – 22:19
That in some way can create a dialogue with the data, with the structure that I’m working with.
22:19 – 22:27
And I often save images, that are not necessarily data visualization projects even if, of course, I I really enjoy being data
22:27 – 22:31
all what my colleagues are doing and and and something that I’m very interested on.
22:31 – 22:37
But when it’s time for vision exploration, I really enjoy saving images that are not related to the words of data visualization
22:38 – 22:44
but they can be a cliche, they will be words of nature, of art, illustrations, graphic design in a broader sense.
22:45 – 22:51
And this helps me in trying to find new visual languages that can help me for the data that I have.
22:52 – 23:04
So I don’t Jon necessarily to force the data for an image I found, that I enjoy but it’s like a mixer to to they have to work in parallel to me.
23:04 – 23:05
Right. Okay. I gotcha. Yeah.
23:05 – 23:14
And so then I start sketching. Very ugly sketch sketches on my, on my notebook and and then there is the the tool face.
23:14 – 23:18
So you are pen and paper or do you sketch on an iPad?
23:18 – 23:19
No. Pen and paper. Yeah.
23:19 – 23:27
Pen and paper. Yeah. Okay. So you have, like, this huge collection of of colored pencils and markers, or are you, like, you have, like, black and white?
23:27 – 23:30
You’re just you’re just getting things on on paper?
23:30 – 23:32
Yeah. I’m boring. Just black and white.
23:34 – 23:40
I mean, every time, like, I’m just so like, every time I talk to a designer, I always, like, have this image of this, like,
23:40 – 23:44
amazing bookshelf of amazing pens and and markers and and, paints and stuff.
23:44 – 23:52
But it sounds like it’s just you have but I have, like, a cup full of pens. So, yeah. Okay.
23:52 – 24:00
So, before we get to the computer part of building, on the data part, are there tools that you use?
24:00 – 24:06
Because a lot of the, a lot of the products you use, they’re not like a simple singular table that you could sort of look
24:06 – 24:10
at and just like imagine, like, are there tools that you’re using to explore the data?
24:11 – 24:19
No. I just I just use Excel or or, Google spreadsheet, and and sometimes I work with data analyst.
24:19 – 24:23
And in that case, though, they work on the data and then they we we talked about them.
24:24 – 24:33
Okay. And so you’re just sort of visually exploring the data to try to get a sense of, you know, this column is in dollars. This is percentages.
24:33 – 24:39
This observation looks like it’s way bigger than the others, but it’s sort of just a visual kinda trying to get a feel of the data?
24:40 – 24:45
Yeah. And to do that, I use, row graph a lot. Okay.
24:45 – 24:53
This is the tool that I use not only for my final representations, but also to ex start exploring the data and seeing how it behaves.
24:53 – 25:02
Gotcha. Okay. So you’ve got your sketches and now and you’ve got your what I imagine is kind of an amazing collection of photographs and links.
25:03 – 25:05
And so now you’re into the computer.
25:05 – 25:10
So what are the what are sort of the suite of tools that you use to to build your your projects?
25:10 – 25:21
So first of all, I have to say, when I work on interactive projects, I really cannot mention 2 of my friends and colleagues because I I I don’t code. I’m not a developer.
25:21 – 25:25
So for the interactive projects, I always work with Paolo Corti.
25:25 – 25:33
He’s an incredible, developer and Alex Piacentini who’s a designer and developer. So Mhmm.
25:33 – 25:36
I always have to mention them when I talk about the most technical aspects.
25:37 – 25:42
When I work on static projects, I work on them independently and in those cases, I always use Adobe Illustrator.
25:43 – 25:49
That’s always the the the main tool I use and pretty often I combine it with Raw Graphs.
25:50 – 25:51
Okay.
25:51 – 25:59
Because it’s super helpful, I can have as Guji files, created, using raw graphs, then I import them on Illustrator.
25:59 – 26:08
And I often use both raw graphs or the graphs tools that are embedded in the illustrator to have the skeleton of my Mhmm.
26:09 – 26:12
Of my visuals to have the accurate, representations.
26:13 – 26:17
And then I often draw on top of them my custom shapes.
26:17 – 26:22
So in this way, I can have custom representations, but they are also accurate, of course.
26:22 – 26:27
Mhmm. So you have a pretty streamlined toolkit.
26:28 – 26:34
You know, a lot of people use and I’ll throw myself in this group. Like, I use kinda like everything. Right?
26:34 – 26:38
And it’s like, it is can be a little overwhelming because there’s, like, always new tools popping up.
26:38 – 26:47
But you you seem to have a pretty, like, pretty small dedicated toolkit of, like, raw illustrator, Excel, or Google Sheets.
26:47 – 26:55
Yeah. That’s true. I I often I sometimes I also add new tools, like Figma for, prototypes, for instance Right. Websites.
26:56 – 27:05
But for the static visualizations, I’ve been very, yeah, truthful to my old good old, original tools.
27:05 – 27:14
I’m open I’m open to everything news, of course, but at the moment, I’m finding very I mean, I find myself, very I I work with them very well. So
27:15 – 27:20
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they’re they’re the tried and true kinda tested design tools.
27:20 – 27:24
So if it’s not broke, don’t don’t fix it. Mhmm.
27:25 – 27:29
What sort of projects are you working on now that’s got you excited?
27:31 – 27:36
I’ve been working, I’ve been collaborating with the European Union. Mhmm.
27:36 – 27:39
And it’s something that I really enjoy doing.
27:39 – 27:42
And it’s also again, with them, I’m I’m working with very classical and representations, but it’s something that I enjoy because
27:42 – 27:49
I cannot have nothing against representations, but it’s something that I enjoy because I can have nothing against bar charts.
27:49 – 27:54
And there are projects I’m very excited about, but still can talk about, unfortunately.
27:54 – 28:02
But a project that I worked on recently, and I know that you are aware of it, it’s a it’s a set of data visualization for an exhibition.
28:03 – 28:09
And it was a very interesting project to work on because, I’ve never worked for an exhibition.
28:09 – 28:14
I mean, I my works have been displayed in exhibitions but it’s not the same thing.
28:14 – 28:24
And it was a a photographical exhibition by the photographer Luca Lucatelli who worked on the topic of sustainability and circular economy solutions.
28:25 – 28:32
It was data by Elizamede, and, and it was presented in a beautiful museum, in Turin. It’s called the Galleria D’Italia.
28:32 – 28:39
And and the curator, Elizamede, really wanted to the the the purpose of the exhibition was very informative.
28:39 – 28:44
Informative about all the possible solutions, sustainable solutions, economic solutions.
28:44 – 28:50
And they wanted to add an even more informative layer to this photograph beautiful photographic exhibition.
28:50 – 28:58
And so they asked me to design some data visualizations, an interactive screen and some printed data visualisations to accompany
28:58 – 29:06
the the journey of the exhibition, in the different rooms, covering the different topics that the photographs were portraying.
29:06 – 29:15
And it was very interesting working on this, on this project because, of course, I had I I’ve been asked to visual experiment
29:15 – 29:23
because I was in an artistic context and that part of visual experimentation was very important, but the informative aspect too.
29:23 – 29:31
And then it was very nice because I I I an aspect that was totally new for me was that I had after finishing everything, some
29:31 – 29:38
days before the opening, I have spent some hours with the guides because of course there are people there with guides who
29:38 – 29:40
can explain to the visitors the visualizations.
29:41 – 29:46
And I spent some times with them telling them about the visualizations, the approach to the data.
29:46 – 29:52
It was very nice because for once, I had a bridge and a living bridge.
29:52 – 29:53
Yeah. Living bridge.
29:53 – 30:03
Yeah. Yeah. And the visitors and and there was many and then, they told me that there were many many visitors because the exhibition was was beautiful.
30:03 – 30:10
Thanks to Lucatelli and the curator, but also many many schools, many many kids, and the teachers asked for the visualizations
30:11 – 30:16
because they wanted to, to also show them to the kids at school.
30:16 – 30:19
So it was a very, very nice experience to Yeah. Yeah.
30:19 – 30:25
So I’ve seen we’ve we’ve talked about that, or we emailed about that project in the past because I’m just I’m curious on the
30:25 – 30:32
sort of museum exhibition space of of Data, but I’m curious, at least from the from the pictures, they look like very large kind of
30:33 – 30:33
Yeah.
30:33 – 30:45
Poster size, visualizations. And I’m curious whether that size caused any change in your process or whether it was freeing
30:45 – 30:50
because you had so much space or whether it was more difficult because you’re like, how do I fill all this space and make it interesting?
30:50 – 30:54
Like, did the did the size impact your process at all?
30:54 – 31:05
Yeah. Definitely. Because I really had to balance having more space didn’t mean that I could have something that was definitely more complex of my usual visualizations.
31:06 – 31:09
Also because, everything was in double language.
31:10 – 31:14
This was challenging because I had to to Italian and English.
31:14 – 31:17
So I had to dedicate a lot of space to the double language.
31:18 – 31:18
Right.
31:18 – 31:25
And also seeing something in, looking at a visualization in a magazine, it’s very different from looking at it on a on a museum.
31:25 – 31:33
So for instance, I did a lot of print test test to see to check the readability, the font size, it was very important.
31:33 – 31:37
The height of the different text, it was very important that they could be accessible.
31:38 – 31:41
But then and I did a lot of tests in my at home.
31:41 – 31:49
But then once, we did the first test there was completely different because of course the space of a museum, the it’s totally
31:49 – 31:53
different from the one you can try to recreate in a room. Sure. Yeah.
31:53 – 32:01
And so you’d have to calculate the distances, differently And so it was definitely a challenging part.
32:01 – 32:03
Something that I’ve never worked on before. Yeah.
32:03 – 32:09
Right. Yeah. I I mean, just just the because you’ve mentioned, like, adults and kids viewing it.
32:09 – 32:11
Like, just the difference in the height Mhmm.
32:11 – 32:18
Of what, you know, an 8 year old can see at you know, I don’t know how old I don’t know how tall 8 year olds are anymore.
32:18 – 32:24
Like, 4 feet tall versus or 3 and a half feet tall versus, you know, a 6 foot tall adult.
32:24 – 32:27
Like, just just that difference is is really interesting.
32:27 – 32:37
Yeah. For me, it was important to have the text, the explain the explanatory text always in the same positions and at a height that couldn’t be too challenging.
32:37 – 32:46
So they were always at the bottom of the visualization so that because it will be challenging for for some people if it was high, for instance, in the.
32:47 – 32:55
And for the text itself, thinking about these kind of 2 different groups, adults and just generally adults and kids, Like,
32:55 – 32:57
how did you think about the writing itself?
32:57 – 33:08
I mean, the I mean, you’ve done a lot of magazine work, so I suspect that that comes pretty natural to you to sort of write for a broad audience. Yeah.
33:08 – 33:11
Is that similar? I really enjoy also writing.
33:12 – 33:22
But in that case, with the curator, we decided that every all the text that were within the the visualizations needed to be very very simple and very minimal.
33:24 – 33:27
There wasn’t a need for poetic text within the visualization.
33:27 – 33:39
They I really my effort was on explaining, the data, the units of measures because sometimes the units of measures weren’t so easy to understand for everybody.
33:39 – 33:50
The source, the kind of information, and then the text of the exhibition that also mentioned the visualizations were the most poetic and evocative ones.
33:50 – 33:52
So this was the decision that, that we made.
33:53 – 33:58
Yeah. That is that is really interesting. So, thanks for coming on.
33:58 – 34:05
Before I let you go, where can folks find you and view your work and connect with you?
34:06 – 34:13
So, on Instagram, Federica Fragapane, not an easy name, I know, even for for the Italian people.
34:13 – 34:15
For the for the for the non Italians. Yeah.
34:15 – 34:17
But yeah. But it’s difficult for the Italian too.
34:17 – 34:22
So and also on BN, so you can find my online portfolio, Federica Ferrego.
34:22 – 34:29
Okay. So I will put links to your Instagram feed and your Behance feed, on the show notes so people can go take a look at your work and connect.
34:29 – 34:31
Frederica, it was great to chat with you.
34:31 – 34:40
Thanks for coming on the show, and, I’ll look forward to the next pictures of the next museum installation because because I’m just excited about that stuff. So thanks again. I appreciate it.
34:40 – 34:43
Thank you so much, and thank you for having me. It was my pleasure.
34:44 – 34:47
Thanks everyone for tuning in to this week’s episode.
34:47 – 34:52
I hope you enjoyed the first episode of season 11, and I hope you will come back and listen to more.
34:52 – 34:59
Once again, please consider rating or reviewing the show on your favorite podcast provider or on YouTube if you’re watching it there.
35:00 – 35:04
And I have lots of great guests lined up for this season coming your way.
35:04 – 35:09
I’m not gonna tell you who they are because that will ruin the surprise, but be sure to check back in.
35:09 – 35:13
I’ve got lots more coming your way on this season of the Policy Biz Podcast.
35:13 – 35:17
So thanks so much for listening, and I’ll see you next time.
